Has anyone seen this study?

[Juliana]

Hi,

Just registered having read this article, thought it may be of interest. Quite impressive study

http://www.goutpal.com/gouty/gout-information/gout-pdf/#media-tag-item-523%5Badmin edit: link amended]

(where I have put the $ before the t4 please substitude a “hash” sign – I cant find it on my computer, sorry!

– in a nutshell:-

1) intake of moderate purine rich vegetables intake does not increase incidence of gout

2) Low fat dairy intake reduces gout attacks

3) Confirms intake of fish & meat do increase gout attacks

Number 1 I found of particular interest – I guess many of you are already aware of this?  It seems there are other factors at work – article does explain.  However, as I understand it, it does mean that the uric acid may be raised, but the type of purines will not cause gout.  My concern is though, that even if this is the case, it still may contribute to heart disease?

Any thoughts?

My husband has had gout since his teens – he is now 67. Never had drugs to treat it & suffered more in recent years. Recently immobilised for a month.  Unfortunately he also seems to have small vessel desease & so we are trying to treat it & the gout naturally, however we do live on fish! What do you eat if not fish & meat & are intolerant of dairy?

This forum is such a great resource – haven't had chance to puruse it all as it it so vast – but much appreciated & helpful so far.

Nb Sorry I don't know how to create a live link to the website – if anyone can advise, I will try!

[zip2play]

Hi Juliana,

I tried the hash sign substitute (#) but no workee.

If you want to link to a website just open it as normal and copy the address bar with the SELECT/COPY command (no need to type) and PASTE it anywhere in your post…it will be a valid link.

Vegetable purines…I think they are as important as any other but they are few and far between with generally low purine content. BUT I aso believe that purine control for gout is usually a pretty futile efffort. Thus I don't think it matters much to our serum uric acid what vegetables we eat, especially if they take the place of meat and fish.

Try this link:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/co…..50/11/1093

I hope that works for those without a subscription the the New England Journal of Medicine …I have one.

THe study strikes me as particularly weak depending on the participants remembering what they ate in the last two years????  I wouldn't draw too much from it. (How many times have you eaten peas in the last two years?:D:D:D

[Juliana]

Hi Zip2play,

Thanks for your help – success!

I checked out the article again and I have to admit it wasn't obvious but it did actually avoid the problem of memory as it collected the data twice a year for two weeks at actual time  (total of 1 month a year for twelve years) before the person was actually diagnosed with gout. They did not in fact actually ask the participants retrospectively about the diet.

It states:-

“Potentially biased recall of diet was avoided, because the intake data were collected before gout was diagnosed.” It sites the following supporting article:-

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/…..f_ipsecsha

Thanks for the advice regarding attaching a live link – I hope it worked!!

By the way you don't need a subscription to the New England Journal of Medicine to access the full text amazingly!  Your link works thankyou so wont redo the original link to article.

Incidently, & somewhat sadly, I do know however how many servings of peas I had in the last 12 months – of course – fish chips & mushy peas is still a must if you are British!

[trev]

@ fish chips & mushy peas is still a must if you are British!

If you like Fish and Chips, you have plenty of company- but remember to ask for 'Skinless' fish [the chips are OK :]

I've done this trick for a few years now, as well as braving a few odd stares- and asking for a 'childs' portion. [Yorkshiremen excepted from this duty!]

[Helps planet and keeps price & weight gain down!]

I think the purines  are mainly in the skin and it makes a difference for me- never noticed any tie in gout reaction – eating every week, pretty well.

Can't say the same for prawns, that's for sure.

[Juliana]

Hi Trev,

Thanks for that tip – very useful re skinless, had not suspected that most purines could be in the skin!  Must get reading this site – going to check out the black beans now – no substitution for the mushy peas though!

[hansinnm]

zip2play said:

Post edited 4:45 pm – January 3, 2010 by zip2play

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…

THe study strikes me as particularly weak depending on the participants remembering what they ate in the last two years????  I wouldn't draw too much from it. (How many times have you eaten peas in the last two years?:D:D:D

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That study is more than weak. Look at their criteria for gout: (more than one attack of acute arthritis, maximal inflammation developing within one day, attack of oligoarthritis, redness observed over joints, painful or swollen first metatarsophalangeal joint, unilateral attack in first metatarsophalangeal joint, unilateral attack in tarsal joint, tophus, hyperuricemia, asymmetric swelling within a joint, and complete termination of an attack).13

 

They totally neglected one, if not the most important, criteria for gout: Heredity!

As “WE HERE” all know, daddy's, granddaddy's, and any other ancestor's so freely to us donated genes, with gout included, has 50%, more or less, a bearing on our metabolism and its consequential involvement on dealing/creating/eliminating purines/uric acid, Mother Nature's powerful paddle to keep the tree of arrogance of some of us from growing too far into heaven (which, unfortunately or fortunately, does only exist in the figment of our imagination.)

Not one of the researchers asked the question:

How come that some men can eat ALL the high-purine foods they can get their hands on and drink ALL the alcohol theirs tummies and brains can absorb without ever getting gout, while others only have to look at those and their big toe screams: OUCH!!! 

I hope that all those RESEARCHERS got a big “Attaboy!” from their bosses and research facilities for losing/spending a few #'s/£’s on their way to the Forum (Fame.)

 

[zip2play]

I tried regrinding through that data and I gave myself a headache. Striking though was, from Table 2, the net difference between the highest and lowest quintiles of high purine vegetable consumption…the groups differed by 1 serving per day (whatever they consider a serving.) You cannot make any reasonably valid assumptions from that.

Basically the article said there was little increase in gout risk to someone who eats no high purine vegetables if he switches to eating ALMOST none.

A perfect example of trying to draw too many conclusions out of this data.

Also the data seems to show that REGULAR dairy products protect nearly as well as LOW-FAT dairy.

God knows how they measure protein servings becasue it adds up to a grest deal more than the sum of the meat, fish, dairy and high purine vegetable servingsvegetable…where else can it come from. 

But then I cannot be too critical because of the paucity of ANY data on the subject of gout…at least these researchers TRIED.

p.s. WHat exactly ARE these “high purine vegetables” anyhow? THe only things I can find are DRIED mushroom, DRIED, peas, DRIES lentils…obviously drying will concentrate everything but we don't eat DRIED, things we reconstitute them.

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